Athena in Plato's Euthydemus

Plato Euthydemus 302d (Loeb)

Then, after a pause, in which he seemed to be lost in the contemplation of something great, he said: Tell me, Socrates, have you an "ancestral Zeus"? Here, anticipating the final move, like a person caught in a net, who gives a desperate twist that he may get away, I said: No, Dionysodorus, I have not.

What a miserable man you must be then, [302c] he said, and you are not an Athenian at all, if you have no ancestral Gods, nor shrines, nor anything else that denotes a gentleman!

Enough, Dionysodorus; I said, do not be rough, and don't browbeat your pupil! For I have altars and shrines, domestic and ancestral, and all that other Athenians have.

And have not other Athenians, he asked, an "ancestral Zeus"?

That name, I said, is not to be found among the Ionians, neither we nor those who have left this city to settle abroad: they have an "ancestral Apollo", [302d] there is, who is the father of Ion, and a "family Zeus", and a "Zeus guardian of the phratry", and an "Athena guardian of the phratry". But the name of "ancestral Zeus" is unknown to us.

That will do, said Dionysodorus; you have, it seems, Apollo and Zeus and Athena.

Certainly, I said.

Then these must be your Gods? he said.

My ancestors, I said, and lords.

Well, at least, you have them, he said: or have you not admitted they are yours?

I have admitted it, I replied: what else could I do?

And are not these Gods animals? He asked: you know you have admitted [302e] that whatever has life is an animal. Or have these Gods no life?

They have life, I replied.

Then are they not animals?

Yes, animals, I said.

And you admitted that of animals those are yours which you could give away or sell or offer in sacrifice to any God, as you pleased?

I have admitted it, I replied; there is no escape for me, Euthydemus.


Previous page | Next page


Home » Museum » Texts Gallery » Athena in Plato's Euthydemus